 Racism in the Queer
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Originally posted by ben
a certain king will never be asked to judge again
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Hmm.. I wonder if a person of colour will one day have the privilege of sitting on the judge's panel.
Perhaps a person of colour will have a chance at winning this year? Or winning the rare but coveted chance of being runner-up?
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I'm an agitator.
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12-19-2006 16:40 |
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well all of you sure no how to keep people away. Folk are scared to comment. scared that every little word will come under attack.
My predictions
idke will be very successful
a certain king will never be asked to judge again
this thread will fade away due to too much anger
my final statement is that it can't be right to paint all white people with one brush. we are not all uninformed, nor racist, nor uneducated, nor all insensitive to race. oh I cant help myself now...not all whites are priviledged. Generalizations are not good...and quite a few of you are generalizing too much... most statements are angry and I know folk can state we have the right to be angry ---I agree--but you are tripping over it and your lectures, I feel, are condensending.
so with that, this white person is going silent too.
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:banghead: :banghead:
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12-19-2006 16:02 |
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when a female identified person gets on a stage wearing pants it is automatically a political statement. aware of it or not. |
This reminds me of something that happened a couple years ago:
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Amina Wadud is an Associate Professor of Islamic Studies at Virginia Commonwealth University (VCU) in Richmond, Virginia. She was the cause of controversy in March of 2005 when she led a Friday prayer for a group of Muslims in New York City, a job usually reserved for men. Wadud was the subject of much debate and Muslim juristic discourse after leading a Friday prayer congregation of over 100 men and women in the Episcopal cathedral of St. John the Divine in New York on March 18, 2005, breaking with the tradition of having only male imams. Three mosques had refused to host the service, while an art gallery was persuaded through a bomb threat to refuse the service as well. (The event was not the first time in the history of Islam that a woman had led the Friday prayer. See Women as imams for a discussion of the issue.)
In August 1994, Wadud delivered a Friday khutbah (sermon) on "Islam as Engaged Surrender" at the Claremont Main Road Mosque in Cape Town, South Africa. At the time, this too was largely unheard of in the Muslim world. As a result, there were attempts in Virginia by some Muslims to have her removed from her position at Virginia Commonwealth University.
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Well now wait a minute, all she was doing was praying! I mean, I'm sure she's done it a million times before in her lifetime, reciting the exact same words and carrying out the correct motions as outlined in the Quran. But then why was this particular prayer so controversial? Why was it seen as such a bold political statement? Was anything she did in regards to her prayer out of the ordinary?
Sammy
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I'm an agitator.
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12-19-2006 15:01 |
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Originally posted by melbird
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Sure, I'm the same way, but there is a lot more that should go into a song choice other than if you "feel it" or not. One wouldn't want to perform something and later find out that someone was totally offended by it because the performer didn't put enough thought into it in the first place.
I think what boy_wonder is saying, is that back when he did drag, it was much more of an outright political statement, and that now a lof of kings do not appreciate that, and don't realize that it is still subversive to go up on stage in drag and perform, and there is a lot of responsibility that comes with that. |
Thanks Sammy I get your point. I just don't feel the need to have political statement in my acts at the moment. |
does any one out there realize that it is still male priviledge to wear pants? to "wear the pants in the family."
last week there was an article in the employment paper. published by "business in vancouver". in that article it basically told women that if they wanted to succeed, to get ahead, be promoted... they should take their cue from the women in their office that already had been. if they wore skirts then you should also wear skirts and NOT pants in order to be successful.
when a female identified person gets on a stage wearing pants it is automatically a political statement. aware of it or not.
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i'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees...
expect the unexpected. and whenever possible, be the unexpected.
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12-19-2006 13:45 |
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melbird
babydyke
Posts: 102
Location: Down town - baby
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Sure, I'm the same way, but there is a lot more that should go into a song choice other than if you "feel it" or not. One wouldn't want to perform something and later find out that someone was totally offended by it because the performer didn't put enough thought into it in the first place.
I think what boy_wonder is saying, is that back when he did drag, it was much more of an outright political statement, and that now a lof of kings do not appreciate that, and don't realize that it is still subversive to go up on stage in drag and perform, and there is a lot of responsibility that comes with that. |
Thanks Sammy I get your point. I just don't feel the need to have political statement in my acts at the moment.
__________________
"I adore simple pleasures. They are the last refuge of the complex."
--Oscar Wilde
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12-19-2006 13:02 |
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Originally posted by melbird
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if you're picking the songs because YOU like them first and foremost...you are going on stage to please yourself.
once upon a time drag kings picked songs because they actually cared about what their audience might want to see. there are a few drag kings that do that. and they are brilliant. however they seem to be out- numbered at the moment. |
You are not getting the point!. You can not get up and perform a song that you can't feel yourself. Doesn't mean I am doing the show for myself, I get up and do what I am asked to do, but if I don't feel I can give the best for a song I don't do it. |
Sure, I'm the same way, but there is a lot more that should go into a song choice other than if you "feel it" or not. One wouldn't want to perform something and later find out that someone was totally offended by it because the performer didn't put enough thought into it in the first place.
I think what boy_wonder is saying, is that back when he did drag, it was much more of an outright political statement, and that now a lof of kings do not appreciate that, and don't realize that it is still subversive to go up on stage in drag and perform, and there is a lot of responsibility that comes with that.
__________________
I'm an agitator.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by SammyTomato: 12-19-2006 12:33.
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12-19-2006 12:32 |
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Aikio
SuperDyke
Posts: 1,111
Location: a womb with a view
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in my attempt to figure out what belongs in here and what goes in a thread on drag kings... i decided that...
drag kings ARE part of our community... just as racism exist within the queer community.
so fuck it. i've posted in both threads.
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| boy_wonder: i am not going to sit down and stop bitching. i have more right to bitch than any of you. i know. with god as my witness, i was there and not one single one of you ever were. |
uhm i hope you don't group me in there with the 'yous'... i performed, a couple times... 3 maybe 4??? with an all male female impersonator aka 'drag' troupe back in the late 80's... think Jon and Unicorn Productions... @ the dufferin/ john barley's/ msT's/numbers .. out of town once too.. from what i recall.
whenever they needed a female 'read dyke' dressed like a guy. i even snuck into the Gandy Dancer and Numbers on 'men's night' totally passing btw.
i don't remember any controversy over 'racist numbers' back then.
the Queens did many popular numbers. We had queens of ALL races doing songs from all races. eg. Filipino queens doing Tina Turner songs.
Native queens did 'white' songs, R&B, whatever the hell they felt like, what was popular in the club and some revamped old vaudeville songs. the odd Rusty Warren skit too.
Everyone came out, supported the performers and had FUN.
i had a roomie in the 90's who was taken under the wing of the 'dufferin queens' and she performed in 'boy drag'. this was a str8 white girl doing Ricky Martin numbers.
i was never called a 'drag king'... it was just called drag. or 'boy drag' as the trannies called dressing in 'men's clothes'.
i remember boy_wonder's AWESOME shows at the Lotus... Bec and Crema too... also an amazing Armani suited performer.. i think went by the name of Jr (pronounced junior) i might be wrong on the stage name so correct me...
any-farkin-how... boy_wonder's shows rocked! the people on stage were great. You could tell how much rehearsal and heart went into the acts.
The audience loved them. They asked for shows! People drove up from Seattle to see them too. That's why Trigger booked them!
The performers supported eachother's shows. From what i recall the audience voted on the best act of that night... not on who was the most popular 'drag artist' in the community.
Back then, it was ENTERTAINMENT.
it wasn't about race related politics ... it was about gender bending and of course gay rights etc...
and like everything... hopefully... things evolve.
So if drag is evolving with new terms and a new political awareness... then so be it.
Bravo or Brava as the case may be...
edit* no one was using the terms FTM, 'transmen' or 'bio-boy'... trannies was a term for pre or post-op MTF's only.
__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." -Albert Einstein
This post has been edited 6 time(s), it was last edited by Aikio: 12-19-2006 12:48.
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12-19-2006 11:52 |
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melbird
babydyke
Posts: 102
Location: Down town - baby
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if you're picking the songs because YOU like them first and foremost...you are going on stage to please yourself.
once upon a time drag kings picked songs because they actually cared about what their audience might want to see. there are a few drag kings that do that. and they are brilliant. however they seem to be out- numbered at the moment. |
You are not getting the point!. You can not get up and perform a song that you can't feel yourself. Doesn't mean I am doing the show for myself, I get up and do what I am asked to do, but if I don't feel I can give the best for a song I don't do it.
__________________
"I adore simple pleasures. They are the last refuge of the complex."
--Oscar Wilde
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12-19-2006 11:39 |
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| Stop bitching at each other over stupid things and move on. |
i don't think i've ever heard the topic of racism described as a 'stupid thing' before.
wow.
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12-19-2006 08:54 |
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Aikio
SuperDyke
Posts: 1,111
Location: a womb with a view
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if anyone wants to discuss how we are all genetically related ... i started a new thread.
__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." -Albert Einstein
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12-19-2006 05:48 |
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arachnia
Forum Legend
Posts: 1,865
Location: Coast Salish Territory, Vancouver BC
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I see this is becoming a heated discussion! I think we have a wide variety of opinions here and we all should tread lightly around a sensitive topic. Sometimes we say things are perceived as disrespectful and indeed we lose sight of the bigger picture.
From a moderator stand point, I'd rather not see this thread degenerate into a flame war because I really don't want to have to delete or close anything here. With such an active thread we have a great opportunity to learn from each other.
My suggestion is perhaps contacting individual users via private messages to discuss things that have been posted that maybe you felt offended by to avoid making public personal attacks. Otherwise contact a moderator.
A reminder of the forum rules for ya'll:
* If you have problems with a thread, post, or another user, please contact a moderator (either myself or Michelle) to let us know instead of making attacks on the forums. On the flip side of this please don't be messaging us every half hour with another complaint - if a particular topic or thread is bothering you then keep in mind that you can choose not to read it.
* IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT'S POSTED IN THE FORUMS OR IN A PARTICULAR THREAD - DON'T READ IT! No one is forcing you to click on that link.
* We take the "Play Nice/Be Polite" rule very seriously! Any member who is intentionally unpleasant or disruptive may be suspended and/or banned without warning.
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"Archaeology is the search for fact. Not truth. If it's truth you're interested in, Doctor Tyree's Philosophy class is right down the hall. So forget any ideas you've had about lost cities, exotic travel, and digging up the world. We do not follow maps to buried treasure and "X" never, ever, marks the spot. Seventy percent of all archeology is done in the library. Research. Reading."
- Indiana Jones
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12-19-2006 00:05 |
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Originally posted by melbird
As a Drag King - we try to pick songs
1 - Foremost because we like the song
2 - Because it is popular (in the charts)
3 - Because the crowd likes the song
We do not go on stage to please ourselves - we get on stage to give a show.
For me it is hard because most of the charts right now is R&B - ie Black artist! and I don't really get into R&B/rap etc,
Also I like being different - remember that?
I think this tread is going down and fast.
Stop bitching at each other over stupid things and move on.
My GOD! |
The whole point is to critically examine our behaviour and how it perpetuates racism. If you have read this entire thread and can say that you remain unconcerned about racism in the queer community, then by all means, blindly continue to perform your routines for fun and popularity, because well... there are bigger things to 'bitch' about... like well, gee... ummm... maybe, NOTHING.
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Racism has to do with consequences, not intent. The process of examining this is one's anti-oppressive work.
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12-18-2006 22:58 |
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Originally posted by Hellboy
First off.. Indian is not Native.The whole PC crap remember? East Indian is bad.. asian is bad.. so what the fuck do you call someone from there? Unless you know the specific country is pretty fuckin hard to pick one.
Anyway I was pointing how retarded this is all getting. As soon as someone gets wind in their sails they are no longer willing to take one small step at a time. They want to take EVERYTHING down at once. And in doing that they are alienating the people that might have otherwise listened. I know I'm done. All I see here is racism at its finest clothed in politically correct wording. |
Y'know, I could've kept my mouth shut (or fingers still) after seeing that. I've done it before. I grew up in Calgary, Alberta during the gulf war, and my last name is Hussain. I either got called a "Paki" everyday, twice a day at school, or was taunted about my family name. There were only so many things I could scream back before I just got used to it, I mean, it happened to me from age 7 to 9-years-old.
I am SO sorry that you have a hard time picking a name for me, SO sorry that you can't keep up with non-offensive terms to call me, SO sorry that whoever you asked about what my ethnicity is gave you the wrong information, please, PLEASE don't leave this conversation. I NEED you to listen. I WANT you to continue on in this very important subject.
Wait a minute, I don't care what YOU do, you can be as destructive and ignorant as YOU want to. But don't tell ME when or when I should not sit there and take it.
Sammy - Pakistani
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I'm an agitator.
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12-18-2006 22:58 |
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