 Racism in the Queer
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pomegranate_bandit
Experimenting
Posts: 48
Location: i live on unceded
Coast Salish people's territory with the settler name east
vancouver
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Originally posted by darkreddawn
PB ~ I would like to get something happening over here with INCITE! Love to see what thoughts you have on that, and if you know anything about -Antidote. |
drd miss you. i know a lil' about antidote but it's been a couple years since i talked to people involved. i'm just learning more about Incite, briefly met Chica Boom and am reading Incite's anthology (well all the not too super acedemic peices - it's called the colour of violence.
i remember you talking about wanting to start something. hmmm let's talk, strategize, i'm into it.
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04-18-2007 01:24 |
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t-
Actually I think intentions are nice but results are what I'm after. Good intentions can lead to ignorant, inappropriate and oppressive outcomes.
Though I feel a little ridiculous having to articlulate (nay defend) the need for communication, collaboration and action -not validate racism, but each other, our experience and strategize solutions. It has just been a long time since I have been patronized with the idea that this type of dialogue was innapropriate. Wait this forum was just reopened... I stand corrected.
If you have reviewed the forum, than perhaps you will see that it is more than pity party.
DRD.
PB ~ I would like to get something happening over here with INCITE! Love to see what thoughts you have on that, and if you know anything about -Antidote.
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04-18-2007 00:56 |
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wench
Forum God
Posts: 2,855
Location: transitional
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Originally posted by Trigger
What I am saying is rasicm occurs daily and we all know this...the more it gets talked about the more the fire gets fueled. I dont see any attempts at resolving the issue, I only see people trying to say that it affects them more than the next person.
What is the point in that?
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Four or five months ago I would have agreed with you. Now I don't.
Discussion allows people to share experiences and ideas. I understand what you're saying about this thread, but as a result of this thread I have gone on to discuss the topic of racism with people in person and have felt educated as a result.
I may agree or disagree with people's approaches to discussion, but the dicussion of racism is not a bad thing - as you say yourself, it exists, so why ignore it? Ignoring problems tends to make them worse, wouldn't you say?
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04-18-2007 00:48 |
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pomegranate_bandit
Experimenting
Posts: 48
Location: i live on unceded
Coast Salish people's territory with the settler name east
vancouver
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Trigger
I think its highly ignorant to talk about racism like it only applies to select groups or select areas. I'm sure racism has effected or applied to everyone at some point in their life, we can go on and on about the wrong doings that we've witnessed or experienced, but the more that people keep talking about it the more they are keeping it alive and current. What is the good of agruing amongst yourselves if your common goal is to abolish it? Or is this really a case of who wants to be the most oppressed?
Actions speak louder than words. |
i think one reason to talk about it amongst ourselves is to validate some of the racism, violence, etc. we experience so it's not silenced, repressed, and kept hidden like common ideas that "racism doesn't exist in [insert colonized country's name or any country", name of school, workplace, etc. etc.] or "that person's so open minded their not racist", or "how can [insert name of other oppressed groups or experiences] be racist when they face so much struggle in this world" and so forth.
another reason is to encourage action - like when most peoples are asked, "what should we do about this 'social' and 'systemic' problem" one of the most common ideas or 1st steps are awareness and knowledge - which i agree it's tiring (especially when one needs to make people who have alot of priviledge open up their eyes and hearts to something out side of their experience.) - once we got the knowledge or confidence then we can get organized ideally in masses.
anyways those are just a few of the reasons i think it's important for POC to talk about the racism we experience.
sure having a scaling of what person of colour experiences more racism than the next is a complex conversation that may not seem progressive but talking about the ways we survive in this colonized land built to be a colony by slave labour, genocide, and environmental destruction is important to better understand the unique and unifying experiences of being a POC in the americas. sure many people of my race are intensly priviledged despite being "othered" or as some like to term "colored" but we cannot talk about racism or any other form of struggle with out talking about gender, class/economics, formal education, ability, health, violence, sexuality, land, displacement, and other aspects of being and again surviving in this nasty system. just like feminism isn't just about ending sexism that white women experience anymore (thank you bell hooks and the folks before her and folks today that don't have a word for it...)
ps. unfortunately feminism is still most commonly known or accessed by white middle class women but there's some fierce third world, Indiginous, and Black feminisms hip happenin *check out Incite! women of colour against violence in the states and "colonize this!" an anthology of younng women of colour writing about feminism and ending all oppression
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04-17-2007 23:26 |
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LadyKona
hardcore lesbo
Posts: 706
Location: Vancouver
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Trigger
... I dont see any attempts at resolving the issue, I only see people trying to say that it affects them more than the next person.
What is the point in that? |
I'm interested in any suggestions you might have. Or... hmmm... were/are you asying that the way to resolve the issue is to not talk about it? Then what? Or is that where it needs to end in your mind? You mention that actions speak louder than words... can you speak more about that as well?
With sincerity,
!Kona
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[B]Lady Kona, Nubian Imp[/B]
Vancouver, BC, Canada
[URL=http://www.NubianImp.com]http://www.NubianImp.com[/URL]
My friends and I organize parties:
[URL=http://www.CanadianMayhem.com]http://www.CanadianMayhem.com[/URL]
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04-17-2007 19:19 |
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darkreddawn
first of all thanks for addressing me in all CAPS, it shows the well desereved respect you must hold for me 
as a person of color myself...actually I am a coat of many colors...but that is besides the point, it shouldnt matter who is saying what, it should matter their intent is.
What I am saying is rasicm occurs daily and we all know this...the more it gets talked about the more the fire gets fueled. I dont see any attempts at resolving the issue, I only see people trying to say that it affects them more than the next person.
What is the point in that?
Do you not see my point, or do you just want to pick apart the things you dont like in what I've said?
...well said TRIGGER
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This IS my drag performance!
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04-17-2007 13:08 |
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TRIGGER
I'm sorry did you just say that if Queer people of colour are discussing our experience, strategies and views on racism in the queer community-> thenwe're perpetuating racism? And that by doing so we're having a victim-hood contest?????
* blinks audibly *
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04-17-2007 12:55 |
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I think its highly ignorant to talk about racism like it only applies to select groups or select areas. I'm sure racism has effected or applied to everyone at some point in their life, we can go on and on about the wrong doings that we've witnessed or experienced, but the more that people keep talking about it the more they are keeping it alive and current. What is the good of agruing amongst yourselves if your common goal is to abolish it? Or is this really a case of who wants to be the most oppressed?
Actions speak louder than words.
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This IS my drag performance!
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04-16-2007 18:38 |
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radicaldyke
going thru a phase
Posts: 68
Location: here and now
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IT'S ABOUT FRIGGIN TIME. . . .!!!
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"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." --Audre Lorde
"When I dare to be powerful - to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it becomes less and less important whether I am afraid."
- Audre Lorde
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03-16-2007 09:22 |
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LadyKona
hardcore lesbo
Posts: 706
Location: Vancouver
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Huh.
!K
__________________
[B]Lady Kona, Nubian Imp[/B]
Vancouver, BC, Canada
[URL=http://www.NubianImp.com]http://www.NubianImp.com[/URL]
My friends and I organize parties:
[URL=http://www.CanadianMayhem.com]http://www.CanadianMayhem.com[/URL]
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03-16-2007 00:02 |
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thank you.
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I'm an agitator.
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03-15-2007 21:59 |
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wench
Forum God
Posts: 2,855
Location: transitional
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After considerable feedback regarding the closing of this thread and others, the admin and moderator team has made the decision to re-open it.
Please respect each other and differing viewpoints, and if you don't like it, don't read it.
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03-15-2007 19:11 |
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arachnia
Forum Legend
Posts: 1,865
Location: Coast Salish Territory, Vancouver BC
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| RE: Racism in the Queer community |
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In response to the volume of people expressing disagreement with the closure of this thread and in light of the lengthy discussion taking place amongst the moderator team, I’m posting a further public explanation for why this thread was closed in hopes that it’ll provide some clarity.
This thread was closed because it was off-topic, too lengthy and consequently difficult to follow and eventually reference for others in the future.
The discussion was getting heated at one point as can be expected with the topic in question. Separating and/or encouraging users to start other threads that tackle individual aspects of an issue as diverse as this minimizes room for misunderstanding and upset. I think we all want people to exchange ideas in a safe space without fear of getting slammed with a personal attack and to give the racism discussion the proper respect it deserves.
Regardless of whether this thread contained what could be considered offensive posts, it would have been closed eventually anyways, for reasons already stated (ie. veering off topic).
As always, folks are free and encouraged to start other threads on the topic of racism and any of the issues surrounding it.
If so requested, I’d be happy to consider copying and pasting individual posts from this thread into another (with permission from the original poster of course) if people wanted something specifically included in another thread for discussion.
Please drop me a private message if you have any requests, concerns, questions, suggestions or require further clarification.
- arachnia
__________________
"Archaeology is the search for fact. Not truth. If it's truth you're interested in, Doctor Tyree's Philosophy class is right down the hall. So forget any ideas you've had about lost cities, exotic travel, and digging up the world. We do not follow maps to buried treasure and "X" never, ever, marks the spot. Seventy percent of all archeology is done in the library. Research. Reading."
- Indiana Jones
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12-28-2006 19:41 |
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wench
Forum God
Posts: 2,855
Location: transitional
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| RE: Racism in the Queer community |
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Originally posted by SammyTomato
Here's a topic that's been very relevent in my life lately: Racism in the Queer Community
Your thoughts, feelings, and emotions surrounding it? Have you encountered it? Do you think it exists in this context? Examples of oppression based on race within the community? |
I think that the question of whether or not racism exists in the queer community has been answered by this thread in both emotional tone and sheer volume of replies with a resounding YES.
Considering that this thread has spurned a number of new threads, a variety of new discussions, and an entirely new forum, I will now be closing this thread in the hopes that its closure of it will encourage forum users to contribute to other threads or open new threads to topics requiring further discussion.
I have made this thread "sticky", which means that it will appear at the top of the Queer People of Colour forum everytime its opened, giving any new users to this forum immediate access to it.
Thank you to everyone who has participated, because without discussions like these, change would be impossible.
Please feel free to message me with any questions, comments, or concerns.
- wench
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12-19-2006 23:04 |
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Originally posted by ben
well all of you sure no how to keep people away. Folk are scared to comment. scared that every little word will come under attack.
My predictions
idke will be very successful
a certain king will never be asked to judge again
this thread will fade away due to too much anger
my final statement is that it can't be right to paint all white people with one brush. we are not all uninformed, nor racist, nor uneducated, nor all insensitive to race. oh I cant help myself now...not all whites are priviledged. Generalizations are not good...and quite a few of you are generalizing too much... most statements are angry and I know folk can state we have the right to be angry ---I agree--but you are tripping over it and your lectures, I feel, are condensending.
so with that, this white person is going silent too. |
What I see here is an unwillingness to "roll up one's sleeves" and get at the issues. There is a severe difference between expressing one's story, and inserting critical analysis and discussion, versus having very little discussion and condemning the pages upon pages of folks who have felt safe enough to insert their voices into this learning experiment, and 'threatening' (I use the term loosely) to disappear. I challenge you to have a critical discussion and critically analyze your role and understanding of racism.Those that have the bravery to look in the mirror and insert their critical voices are what are moving this thread forward.
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Racism has to do with consequences, not intent. The process of examining this is one's anti-oppressive work.
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12-19-2006 21:41 |
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| quote: |
Originally posted by ben
well all of you sure no how to keep people away. Folk are scared to comment. scared that every little word will come under attack.
My predictions
idke will be very successful
a certain king will never be asked to judge again
this thread will fade away due to too much anger
my final statement is that it can't be right to paint all white people with one brush. we are not all uninformed, nor racist, nor uneducated, nor all insensitive to race. oh I cant help myself now...not all whites are priviledged. Generalizations are not good...and quite a few of you are generalizing too much... most statements are angry and I know folk can state we have the right to be angry ---I agree--but you are tripping over it and your lectures, I feel, are condensending.
so with that, this white person is going silent too. |
with all due respect...i would never want to judge dkv ever again in my life. it has to have been the single most negative drag king experience i have ever had in my life. with the exception of woody and a few other performers
and while you come here and accuse me of being responsible for all this negativity in drag king land...well no actually i am not. for painting all white people with the same brush. well, i am here and i am not doing that. i am white and i am not like all white people...there are other white people here and they aren't either.
i am standing up and questioning why so many white people feel comfortable painting other people with their brush. people of colour. or not hearing their voices?
you can blackball me, call me what you will, tell me i don't know what i'm talking about. none of you can look me in the eye and say as much. you ignore me, shut me out, shut me down. but when it comes to looking me in the eye y'all look away. scuff your feet on the floor and pretend, like it's gonna just go away.
if this is what being white is all about then i am happy to be called a race traitor. if this is what the colour of my skin represents. i am speaking out after being quiet for a very long time. and i own my shit. i know when and where i fucked up. i am sorry for it.
why do you all come along to tell every one that is trying so hard to make some change shut up? we've been being told to shut up for years.
i have. and i have as much right to speak my voice as you have yours.
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i'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees...
expect the unexpected. and whenever possible, be the unexpected.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by boy_wonder: 12-19-2006 21:03.
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12-19-2006 21:01 |
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Originally posted by ben
dkv is based on a criteria...that criteria is by the sole discretion of the company that runs the event. If you have an issue with them...talk to them outside this forum. judges are appointed by the owner(s) of the event.. again if you have an issue contact the folk who run the event. no point in guessing on a public forum..or insulting folk.
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I have contacted them outside of a public forum and got no response to my inquiry. I sent the question about five months ago.
As for discussing the dkv outside of a public forum, maybe you should've followed your above criteria before posting a comment like this:
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| a certain king will never be asked to judge again |
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I'm an agitator.
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12-19-2006 19:29 |
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Gruveechick
diehard vagina enthusiast
Posts: 846
Location: Vancouver
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well...all this diaglogue on drag kings. dkv has lost my respect to a certain degree, i didnt watch the finals last time as i couldnt make it for whatever reason. but frankly, club 23 really doesnt interest me to be at, and its more a popularity contest than a drag contest.
i would love to do drag, but find the venues kinda suck at this point to try and perform. i have performed in public before so it isnt being afraid that holds me back. if i do drag, i want to embody what doing drag means. now granted melbird is the one who has tried convincing me lately and as we have read in these posts is doing it for personal reasons and not about the subversive, political act that it really is. so that hasnt convinced me to get out there. im all about political acts, radical acts, and fun stuff too. i have a list of songs i would love to do in drag, some with a message, some to reflect impersonating a male artists. but as some friends have discussed, drag is also about being opposite of who you are, which for me being butch, would be more feminine. i may be a bit too much of a deep thinker about what activities i choose to involve myself in. but im someone who has had to make very deliberate moves to get to the places i have been. i have never let the fact that im an aboriginal person get in the way of accomplishing many things. but i guess for me, drag is another place where poc are the minority. and as i have stated, the venues have not been tantalizing for me. maybe 23 was a cool place years ago, i find it very annoying to be at. also, how hard is it to get a female dj there? not to mention if you put your drink down, someone will grab it right away, even if its full!!! bastards!!!
ben, its too bad you have just the one post...apparently. maybe you have never been involved in groups to discuss ideas before. there is always some heated debates that go on, the idea is to share experiences as poc of racism. racism goes both ways as my mother used to be the most racist person i knew, or maybe i realized how hard it is to be a poc. that when i get drunk, i get shrugged off as im native and were all drunks! or going to a neurologist to have a spinal tap to confirm i have a certain auto-immune disorder, who had me touch my nose and checked my eyes and started writing a prescription for anti-depressents because im a native woman, who must be clinically depressed, depressed people feel pain much more. having a white male clinically depressed friend at the time shake his head and tell me that im not clinically depressed was nice. but just because im a native woman to be labeled as clinically depressed, when my lifestyle definately proved that wrong! my gp shook her head at his assessment of me and took actions to see if we could get rid of the pain i was in that got the ball rolling from my other specialists on treating me.
of course there is going to be some anger, tell me if you went through those two things i just stated that you would not have some anger. and for someone to come into this discussion and say stop bitching! its more than bitching going on here, its discussion, and for change, you have to accept the anger that we have, and once we can get things out and deal with it, then we can move on. it all takes time and energy and openness. your statement was a complete shut down and im disappointed in it.
theres my two cents at the latest rounds of discussions here
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"emotion without action is irrelevant"
Jody Williams - Nobel Laureate
Anti Landmine Activist
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12-19-2006 18:58 |
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dkv is based on a criteria...that criteria is by the sole discretion of the company that runs the event. If you have an issue with them...talk to them outside this forum. judges are appointed by the owner(s) of the event.. again if you have an issue contact the folk who run the event. no point in guessing on a public forum..or insulting folk.
to suggest it is racial is to insult everyone involved...and it is using that very large brush you have in your hand.
Sounds like sour grapes to me sammy. the last 4 winners presented something so great as to win. Kudos to Devin, Rayne, Cazz and Woody. Hats off to them! It is not always about race.
idke will be great with help from you and the entire community. Lets just roll up our sleeves and work towards a great goal and who knows maybe some understanding will grow and we will learn from each other and thrieve.
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:banghead: :banghead:
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12-19-2006 17:07 |
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